The following is a summary not a verbatim transcript.
JOHN SCHNEIDER, MASSINC VICE PRESIDENT: Good morning. I am filling in for MassINC Executive Director Ian Bowles today. His wife Hannah gave birth to a healthy girl last week. It takes a great deal of work to release a report like this. Our researcher Dana Ansel is spending the year in California and is continuing to work with us, and Greg Leiserson is in Philadelphia. Bob Pozen could not be with us due to a death in his family. Carol Geremia, one of his colleagues at MFS, is stepping in. I would like to introduce Peter Meade, a good friend to us at MassINC. Blue Cross Blue Shield has been a supporter, and a supporter of this report.
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Peter Meade gives his
opening remarks |
PETER MEADE, MASSINC CO-CHAIRMAN: I am co-chair of MassINC, which means I do what Gloria Larson tells me to do. Her day job is interfering with her being here this morning. The notion is to have a group that informs the public discussion with data. In the midst of campaigns, it might not seem like something anyone is interested in. We thought it would be significant to find out what Boomers are thinking about and their expectations about retirement, and what kind of planning are they doing. There are some startling matters for us. After the Greatest Generation, I think, is the most spoiled generation, ours. What are we thinking about? Where are we going to live? What does it mean for companies and public policy? The survey begins to inform that discussion. Doing the study is just part of it. Where we take it from here is part of what MassINC will look at over the next several months. I look forward to the information about the survey and the panel discussion.
JOHN SCHNEIDER, MASSINC VICE PRESIDENT: This is the second survey we have worked on with Larry Hugick from Princeton Survey Research Associates International. We enjoy working with them. Larry will present the key findings this morning.
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| Larry Hugick presents the report |
LARRY HUGICK, PRINCETON SURVEY RESEARCH ASSOCIATES INTERNATIONAL CHAIRMAN: Thanks John. To clear one thing up, we have no connection with the university. We are a private company located in Princeton. This survey looks at the future of Bay State Baby Boomers by asking about their plans, expectations and concerns when the oldest members of the generation are approaching traditional retirement age. We interviewed 1,000 residents between 40 and 58 over the summer. Boomers were asked 20 minutes worth of questions. In reporting the findings, they have been supplemented by MassINC analysis of Census data. About 1.8 million Boomers live here, nearly 30 percent of the population. It’s 60 percent larger than the generation that preceded it. The size of the generation has made its transitions significant, entering school, the workplace, starting families and now retirement. Boomers will redefine retirement by delaying the age at which they retire and planning to work at least part-time after they retire. Boomer finances are not as strong as believed. A third have saved less than $50,000. Thirteen percent have no retirement savings. The survey foreshadows a Boomer exodus. Ten percent of the population would like to retire outside of Massachusetts. The survey asked Boomers when they expect to retire and once they do, do they expect to work for pay. Twenty-one percent consider themselves retired now or expect to retire before 60. Twenty percent said they would retire at 60 to 64. Forty-nine percent expect to retire at or after age 65. About two thirds of Boomers expect to work for pay after they retire. The biggest surprise for me is that younger Boomers expect to delay retirement longer and are more likely to work in retirement. Almost three quarters of the youngest boomers plan to work in retirement. Why do so many expect to work? Some just want to stay active and take on new challenges. About 3 percent want to try a new career. But money is a major factor. Thirty-nine percent plan to work after they retire out of financial necessity. Some need to make ends meet and some to maintain access to health insurance.
The story for what life will be like in retirement, only 17 percent expect to live very comfortably. About one third expect to have enough for basic expenses with a little left over. What about Boomer finances today? It’s not as rosy a picture as you might expect. More than a third rate their situation as fair or poor. One quarter have taken on more debt than they can handle and 15 percent have maxed out their credit cards. Boomers in this state are not as financially stressed as their national peers. In a high cost state, having a sizeable income makes a big difference. An income of $100,000, twice the median, is needed to bring a peace of mind. More than three quarters of Boomers own their own home and half have been in the same house for 10 years. Home equity is a key financial resource for Boomers – four in ten estimate having $250,000 or more. Equity is lower in Central and Western Massachusetts, where values are not as high. Just over a third want to stay in their house in retirement. The same percentage wants to retire out of state. Which are most likely to leave? Financial stresses are one factor. They are less likely to have an advanced degree and more likely to be persons of color. The top priorities are living somewhere with low taxes, proximity to family and friends, and someplace that is not too crowded or stressful. Seventy percent are very or somewhat worried about access to affordable and quality health care in their retirement years. Even the higher-income Boomers have this kind of concern. Medicare eligibility age is kicking in as an important consideration. Nine in ten say that the fact that it’s not available until 65 is very or somewhat important in their decision to retire. About 60 percent say they’ve done some kind of volunteer work in the past 12 months and 71 percent say they plan to volunteer. The biggest benefactors of this increased activity are hospitals, soup kitchens and health and social service community organizations. The sandwiched Boomers, we looked at responsibilities they expect for their parents and children. Forty-eight percent of those with adult children are giving them some financial support. Of Boomers with at least one living parent today, one third say the parent is dependent on them in some way. A majority expects to provide some care in the future.
What does this mean for Massachusetts? Boomers account for 45 percent of the labor force. The generation is so large it has to be reckoned with. Their interest in working after retirement presents challenges. They want flexible work schedules and 15 to 20 hours a week. Additional training and education will be necessary for many Boomers. There is a role for local colleges and universities. More than a third would want to leave Massachusetts and that will have an impact economically and in terms of civic life. Efforts to make the state more affordable for Boomers must be part of any strategy to try to keep them. The competition has warm weather, a lower cost of living and taxes. Political and business leaders should think about making Massachusetts more retirement-friendly so Boomers do not feel compelled to leave. I look forward to the panel discussion.
JOHN SCHNEIDER, MASSINC VICE PRESIDENT: The report is available at massinc.org. This program is being taped for broadcast on WGBH’s webcasting service. Bob Keough is the editor of Commonwealth and a seasoned moderator of forum discussions.
ROBERT KEOUGH, COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE EDITOR: Thank you for that presentation. I was born in 1956, in the middle of the Baby Boom. So I am taking this all very personally. Looking at the audience, I suspect I am not the only one. To Natalie, the survey is one snapshot of the generation. You have been a longtime observer and member of this generation. What are your impressions from reporting, community work and life experience?
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Natalie Jacobson responds
to a question |
NATALIE JACOBSON, WCVB NEWSCENTER 5 ANCHOR AND REPORTER: I started looking at the generation about 15 years ago and the country has been so slow to grasp the enormity of the change of this generation, from retirement funds to job opportunities and the whole world of retail. We program to 18 to 54 and I say why are we doing that? My 24-year-old lives with me because she can’t afford to live someplace else. They advertise to her. I think that’s amusing. Attitude is the governing factor about life in general. Ninety percent of your life has to do with your attitude. The attitude of this generation is life goes on. I am not ready to roll over and die. Retire, what does that mean? The people I think of who have retired in the past were old – they were over 60. Sixty is the new 40. We are healthier. We live longer. We generally take better care of ourselves. We dress differently. My daughter and I exchange clothes. She hates when I fit into pants that are too tight for her – the little pleasures of life. Many of us have liked what we have been doing. We didn’t just have a job. Some people do. If you have enjoyed your work, you may not be anxious to give it up. If you are viable and curious and innovative, this is a wonderful time to be alive. Think of 50, 60 and 70 year olds working alongside 20 and 30 year olds. We can be working for them, which can be disconcerting. It was mentioned that people wanted to work on a part-time basis and that companies don’t want part-time workers, but many companies don’t want to pay benefits so they are willing to hire people on a part-time basis to get away with that. That could end up being a benefit. If you have volumes leave the workforce, there is not another generation that large to come into play. Boston College is doing a terrific study. It showed 59 percent of over-55-year-olds agreed a good deal of pride comes from their work and career. Forty-eight percent of 35- to 54-year-olds thought their work defined them. That has a lot to do with changing attitudes among all generations. There are a number of other aspects to this whole retirement picture. We’ve got to come up with new words. You can’t say seniors. Retirement doesn’t work any more. We said in the newsroom that an elderly woman was hit by a car. How old was she? Sixty-one. That’s not going to work anymore.
ROBERT KEOUGH, COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE EDITOR: Are the Boomers sort of responsible for creating the own pensions and safety nets Carol?
CAROL GEREMIA, MFS INSTITUTIONAL ADVISORS PRESIDENT: A lot to answer as well. Bob Pozen has spent much of his career working on big ideas to rescue Social Security. He looks at it at a macro level. I have helped companies and employees over 21 years. I have seen the system evolve. This is near and dear to my heart. Retirement finances were about being employed at a company for a very long time. The loyalty to the company meant they were going to take care of your retirement finances. It is the accumulation phase. They financed the plan and made the decisions and took care of people in the payout phase. As we have watched the workforce change, and it’s happening all over the world, so much has changed with 401K and the decline of defined benefit plans, concerns about Social Security. It’s become a focus on shared responsibility, between employers and employees on both financing and investment decisions. We absolutely need to think about creating our own pensions, whether we like to hear that or not. Knowing how much you need at retirement is going to have to become the absolute norm. We are answering these questions very slowly unfortunately. The investment community is very focused on this question. The call to action, in my 20 years, with so much time on the road sitting with people, the call to action has been very, very slow. People are still absorbing the fact that they have to take on this responsibility. There’s been a certain level of denial, a sort of how do I do this? Their answer to not having enough is I am going to work longer, rely on family, or move somewhere else. The shift to better retirement planning is still a faraway option and is desperately slow. Our retirement systems may require mandatory savings. A couple of countries have taken these issues very seriously. The ultimate safety net will be the one that requires personal responsibility. That is a tough statement many times. It will require macro effects and political will to fix the Social Security system. So those are my answers.
ROBERT KEOUGH, COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE EDITOR: Debbie, AARP is the leading organization of retired people and pre-retirees. What are your younger members telling you about their prospects for a secure retirement?
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Deborah Banda speaks
about retirement |
DEBORAH BANDA, AARP MASSACHUSETTS STATE OFFICE DIRECTOR: We changed our name from the American Association of Retired Persons to AARP because half our members are still in the workplace. We have done national research on the Boomer generation. The MassINC research is fabulous because it is state-specific. One thing we have been doing is a survey of Boomers at midlife. We look at seven life concerns. We have been doing this since 2002. Every single year the results are that Boomers say their personal finances and work lives are among the worst aspects of their lives. About one third say their personal finances are the thing in their life that needs the most attention. Only half say they will be able to successfully do anything about it. So that’s kind of scary. They are going to redefine what it means to retire. Many want to work for satisfaction and the challenge, but more and more admit they will work simply because they have to to make ends meet. They say having enough money and health benefits are their top concerns. That last part is one of the biggest differences between the generations. Insurance for the 50-to-64 age group has been declining. A lot of people have said income security is a three-legged stool – Social Security, pensions and savings. At AARP, it’s time to throw the stool in the fireplace and start all over again. It should be thought of as four pillars – Social Security, pensions and savings combined, continued earnings from work, and making sure you have health insurance coverage. Those are the four things Boomers need for retirement security. One characteristic of this generation is they are impatient. They want what they want when they want it. It will be interesting if they bring the force of their sheer size to successfully transform the health care system and financial retirement system in this country.
ROBERT KEOUGH, COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE EDITOR: Milton, the survey found the level of volunteerism to be high and that many people plan to do more. Are the Boomers a new civic resource?
MILTON LITTLE JR., UNITED WAY OF MASSACHUSETTS BAY CEO: That’s a wonderful question. I have not been in Massachusetts very long, but MassINC has been a great partner to the United Way. I am happy to be part of this discussion. There is great potential for Boomers to change the charitable and non-profit sectors in the same way they have changed every other phase of society they have touched. If we could harness their passions and energies in civil pursuits in the same ways that they have directed our economy, then we have great potential. There is great opportunity for flexibility in non-profit institutions. I’d be optimistic that we could figure out how to take full advantage of the skills and energies of Boomers. A number of other stresses worry me more. Just as much as they may be on the lines helping to provide service, they may be the people knocking on doors for services. So many have maxed out their credit cards. I wonder how many have refinanced their homes to pay for education. When those notes come due, what’s going to happen and what’s going to happen when they have to leave their houses? There needs to be more supply of housing for folks. I also worry about the health issues. We may see an increasing cry for more community-based health providers. There are going to have to be more and more alternatives. The whole nature of charitable work can change, but I am worried on the other side. If you think that one of four persons who walks into a food bank is a working person, it tells you there are stresses on Boomers that most of us don’t pay attention to. As folks get older and take part-time jobs, if they were not making enough with a full-time job, they will be in worse shape with a part-time job. We have to think more broadly than whether the Boomers will benefit the non-profit sector labor pool.
ROBERT KEOUGH, COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE EDITOR: Debbie, our parents are living longer and need our help. Our children are remaining dependent on us through college and the starts of their careers. How is that weighing on people at midlife?
DEBORAH BANDA, AARP MASSACHUSETTS STATE OFFICE DIRECTOR: Not to make this more dire, but we are talking about the club sandwich generation. The fastest growing group is those over 85. Boomers are trying to help their grandparents, parents and kids. It’s four generations, not just three. To make it more grim and onerous, think about blended families – a Boomer trying to support eight parents. It’s not theoretical. It’s a reality for a lot of people. They are working while trying to support the loved ones in their families. They may be doing it long distance. Overlay all that with the fact that we don’t have a coordinated system of long-term supports. It’s a fractured complicated system that is mind-boggling for people to figure out. One answer to reduce the financial burden is to create more home- and community-based services. We are tilted toward institutional care. We will always need nursing homes, but we need more resources in home- and community-based care. Home- and community-based services are way less expensive than institutional care. Caregivers want to do the best they can. If we had a coordinated system with quality services that people knew how to access, that would be a big plus. The business sector has an interest as well. Employers are losing productive individuals because they have caregiving responsibilities. Boomers wanted more flexible schedules to be better parents and they may want to continue that to be better caregivers. Policy makers should look at financial vehicles to help caregivers, tax incentives to buy long-term care insurance or for caring for a family member in the home. They are going to be determined to make caregiving better for them when they make it to that point.
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Robert Keough takes a question
from the audience |
ROBERT KEOUGH, COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE EDITOR: Boomers represent 30 percent of the population so there’s a lot at stake. It doesn’t seem they want to spend retirement on a rocking chair on the front porch. What are you hearing Natalie?
NATALIE JACOBSON, WCVB NEWSCENTER 5 ANCHOR AND REPORTER: I am still full of thoughts about what’s been said here. Debbie, your suggestions are phenomenal.
DEBORAH BANDA, AARP MASSACHUSETTS STATE OFFICE DIRECTOR: The pool of younger workers is shrinking and businesses will have to rely on older workers and will need to create a workplace that’s inviting – reduced hours, flex time, shared positions. Some businesses are receptive. Draper Labs and MIT have won awards.
NATALIE JACOBSON, WCVB NEWSCENTER 5 ANCHOR AND REPORTER: I went to Johnson & Johnson headquarters 25 years ago for a story. They built a facility at their headquarters, with a gym, a day care center, and clinics to stop smoking, a cafeteria that was amazing. They found their employees became healthier and more emotionally stable and their productivity, they measured it in dollars and cents. I reported this and figured everyone would follow suit here. But going back to attitudes, that did not happen. There is a capital outlay for that kind of thing. But fewer people left Johnson & Johnson. I am in the middle of a story that will air soon on Chronicle. People are just extending what they do in a different fashion, looking for more quality time. Life becomes more precious as you get older. There are so many opportunities. You say I have never been there, or wish I’d gone into that field. People who are wealthy enough to leave the workforce and not worry about an income, the numbers have to be kind of a few. In the larger issue, we still come back to a whole attitude and the latte generation does have the energy and force to make changes. Government has to be a bigger part of our lives. Businesses need to be more of a part of our lives. Government needs to think of itself as a partner, and business as a partner. We are a more integrated society now. We had a Town Meeting on health care in April. Gov. Romney was there and Sen. Moore and they said we will get something done by the close of this year. I said stand up and shake on it. Well, we have that on tape. We will talk to Mr. Travaglini and Mr. Romney. I know progress has been made but we haven’t heard that anything will be signed by the end of the year.
ROBERT KEOUGH, COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE EDITOR: The people who say they want to leave, they are more likely to describe their condition as fair or poor, to be a person of color, and less likely to have a home. Are were driving people out of this state who are not of means and who are minorities?
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Milton Little answers
a question |
MILTON LITTLE JR., UNITED WAY OF MASSACHUSETTS BAY CEO: There is an economic justice to it, more than social justice. For the amount of money I spend on a house here, I could live three times as well in Gainesville, Georgia. It is warm and will cost me less. I might as well go there. You can’t fault folks for making rational decisions. The economic transformation of this state plays a part. At a national meeting, I found out that WalMart is the largest employer in Pennsylvania. If service jobs are the ones people get, this will be a rolling shore of waves beating against the Commonwealth and we will be wondering how we let the beach erode. We are about to experience that phrase of Ross Perot, that giant sucking sound of people making the decision to move back down south where they are comfortable with their family and their dollar will go a little farther.
ROBERT KEOUGH, COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE EDITOR: Carol, if someone was 10 to 15 years from retirement and walked in, what would you tell them?
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Carol Geremia makes
her point |
CAROL GEREMIA, MFS INSTITUTIONAL ADVISORS PRESIDENT: It is my job to say there’s a silver bullet, but there really isn’t. First, don’t be afraid to get help. It’s that fear factor that I don’t understand that is one of the biggest barriers. The second thing I tell them is find out what you are going to need. That is a question that I hope will become the norm. They know what they are going to need and they have time to figure out how to get there. Understand what they have. Understand retirement plans at work. It still amazes me that for all the education, having to communicate this complicated topic, how overwhelming it is for people to get down into the details. I tell people often to pay yourself first. Before you pay your bills and buy food. And you will be able to pay your bills and buy your food. Take advantage of all the pre-tax opportunities. Make sure you get the max of the 401K plan if you have one at work. Take advantage of the catch-up provisions available with EGTRA. It was for people over 50 years old. Look at IRA opportunities out there. If you are married, do the same thing with your spouse to max out. There is no quick way to get rich and no way to catch up for lost time. We see the distraction around massive choice – it has been overwhelming. It’s been too much for people to handle. My advice always is keep it simple. Do not get distracted. How much time do you have and how much risk do you want to take? Don’t stumble on the second question. Make sure you are more comfortable with your risk. A simple asset allocation plan that meets a timeframe is a great place to be for a long period of time. Go to your HR department and ask about your options and resources and investment advice and guidance. There is so much help out there. We need to figure out how to crack the code to get it used. The cost of waiting and doing nothing is without a doubt the greatest risk.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: Great presentation. I got plugged three times today. I could not agree more with the comment on attitude. I’m Dave Corbett from New Directions. A survey predicted that if you hit 50 at good health, chances are good that you will live to 100. My question is what’s next? The way we see it is we need to create a new language, that the word retirement must disappear. If we are going to live to be in our 90s, old age and retirement makes no sense at all. What kind of new language can we create here? How can we brand or re-brand this prime time which probably soon will be a stage in life longer than traditional careers?
ROBERT KEOUGH, COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE EDITOR: David is right. Retirement is changing. We are all going to be doing something other than retiring at 65 but we won’t be doing the same thing as now.
NATALIE JACOBSON, WCVB NEWSCENTER 5 ANCHOR AND REPORTER: We need a new word. People are saying they are retired, but are working here and there. They are retired from the job they had before.
MILTON LITTLE JR., UNITED WAY OF MASSACHUSETTS BAY CEO: I have struggled with it. I agree we need to have a new definition. People are doing something else. There are smart marketing people to give us a thousand words from which to choose.
CAROL GEREMIA, MFS INSTITUTIONAL ADVISORS PRESIDENT: Maybe it’s transitioned life cycles. It’s different phases of your life.
NATALIE JACOBSON, WCVB NEWSCENTER 5 ANCHOR AND REPORTER: How about seasons?
DEBORAH BANDA, AARP MASSACHUSETTS STATE OFFICE DIRECTOR: Focus groups have been done and nothing seems to be catching. Part of the key to it might be awareness of this stage of life. If we can change people’s perceptions that 61 is not elderly anymore, then we can appropriately use current words.
NATALIE JACOBSON, WCVB NEWSCENTER 5 ANCHOR AND REPORTER: Names are important. When I first got my AARP card, I threw it in the wastebasket.
AUDIENCE STATEMENT: I am an HR consultant. I have worked with small business clients. I use the word career transition.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: I am the executive director of a school-based non-profit in Boston. I really enjoyed your presentation. It normalized issues that occurred in my own life. I had to care for my mom and it was really life altering. Twenty-five years ago there was no organized sense of day care. We see a bubble rising in the education system to train young people to be providers. What types of issues are being presented in the education arena to train young people to enter the field of elder care and to change some policies too? We need a workforce to support us as we grow older.
MILTON LITTLE JR., UNITED WAY OF MASSACHUSETTS BAY CEO: The challenge is there are not a whole lot of people who aspire to be day care workers. They are part-time, low paid, not respected and not considered professional. We have to legitimize those as professions and make them competitive. You have to be paid a fair wage, something to sustain a family. At the policy level nationally, there are conversations in Washington about the implications of a bubble, but it’s not accompanied by enough programmatic activity. I don’t see a rushing in college programs targeting geriatric services. I don’t know that we are fully grasping the implications.
NATALIE JACOBSON, WCVB NEWSCENTER 5 ANCHOR AND REPORTER: Look at how we view our teachers. They are not revered the same way as other professions. There we go with the attitude again. We don’t revere caretaking positions and until that changes, maybe it has to change now because we’re in this situation with this bubble.
DEBORAH BANDA, AARP MASSACHUSETTS STATE OFFICE DIRECTOR: I don’t know of a senior citizen willing to admit they were going to an adult day care center. That’s the phrasing and imaging we need to change. An 85-year-old man who is sharp as a tack would rather cut his arm off with a butter knife than admit going to an adult day care center.
AUDIENCE QUESTION: You have Home Depot doing good work with older workers, and MIT, which has fabulous benefits with the way they take care of mature workers. Companies are reactive, not proactive. What do we do to convince companies in a positive way to partner with the public and other sectors?
DEBORAH BANDA, AARP MASSACHUSETTS STATE OFFICE DIRECTOR: One thing we are doing is releasing research next week to make the business case for hiring and retaining older workers. A lot of them assume elder workers are more expensive to keep. In many instances and industries, it is more expensive to keep recruiting and retaining and training new workers. Businesses are realizing there is that brain drain. Older workers are mentors for younger workers. No one is doing this at the level they are supposed to, but there are some shining stars out there. The HR professionals are starting to get it and we need to bubble that up to the CEO level.
AUDIENCE STATEMENT: Let’s not forget about people who are already elders. There is a lack of attention in philanthropy and in the Legislature about the real needs of elders today. We need to debunk the myth that everyone is doing okay. We need to catch up. We need to look at the flows of wealth, wisdom, caring, and caregiving.
MILTON LITTLE JR., UNITED WAY OF MASSACHUSETTS BAY CEO: Yes, we need to broaden the conversation. We also need a new attitude about government. The attitude we have is that government is bad, until we need it. As our own self-interest begins to manage our attitudes and behaviors, we are going to make some new calls on government to do some things tomorrow. We need as a public policy the attitude that creates a dialogue about creating a strategy that says from zero to the minute the foot is in the grave, we need to provide a minimal level of security and opportunity and health benefit. What do we owe each other as human beings? Until we have that discussion, we are going to piecemeal these strategies together.
NATALIE JACOBSON, WCVB NEWSCENTER 5 ANCHOR AND REPORTER: The only way that is going to happen is if people like you enter politics. [Applause] I am serious. The good old boys control it all. Look at how non-transparent Washington is. We are in an evolving situation and people don’t want to enter politics. I don’t know who people hate more, politicians or my field. Politics today is a dirty word. You have to get through the media, which is ridiculous. If you smoked marijuana when you are 12, and now you are 55. Who wants to go through that scrutiny? The media needs to clean up its act. Public service becomes a job you are in for 50 years. Maybe retiring is a price you pay for a more involved society. We are so entrenched. Political finance reform. John Kerry was leading that and he caved, because he didn’t have any choice. The people on the Hill are not going to vote themselves out of what they’ve got their terms of this money. We are stuck in this quagmire where we can’t get out. As an observer on the scene for 35 years, it’s frustrating to not make progress in areas where it’s so obvious what the progress may be.
CAROL GEREMIA, MFS INSTITUTIONAL ADVISORS PRESIDENT: My mother-in-law is moving in with us. She is 61. I am excited about it. She is going to be great with the kids. But she doesn’t have a choice, except for us. But it’s a pretty darn good choice, if I say so for myself.
ROBERT KEOUGH, COMMONWEALTH MAGAZINE EDITOR: Thanks to our panelists.
